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vegan debate

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Reasons for Veganism [26 Jul 2010|09:22pm]

I'm assuming that at least some of the vegans in this community prefer that their friends and/or significant others practice veganism.

If you are a vegan for moral reasons (even if that's only one of your reasons), would it matter at all to you if a new person in your life was vegan, but not for any moral reasons whatsoever? If you were attracted to someone in part because that person was a vegan, would that specific attraction be affected at all, even a little, if you found out there was no moral motivation?
6 debaters made their point.

did you know that vegetarian cheeses are GMO? [09 Jan 2010|10:13pm]
while not directly applicable to vegans, it is nevertheless very very relevant to larger issues of food production and purity that do affect vegans and vegetarians of all types.
2 debaters made their point.

interview with animal trainer (x-posted) [14 Sep 2009|02:55pm]

hi, im preparing to do an interview with an animal trainer and i wanted to see if there were any questions that you would be particularly interested in asking? (i will be happy to post the audio clip when its done). here is some background information on the guest:

-26 yr old female with BA in zoology
-huge animal lover, her favorites being birds of prey.
-past work includes volunteering at a zoo and a birds of prey rescue center for a number of years
-currently works as a trainer for a birds of prey center. they put on live shows with the birds for educational purposes

we are going to be talking about the animal welfare aspect of training animals in general, and comparing/contrasting that with the training that goes on at her job.

i can provide more info if this is too vague.. hope to hear from some people, should be a good interview! thx :D
made their point.

To stay vegan or not? [26 Aug 2009|05:39pm]

I've been a vegan for four years. I'm a pretty good cook and like spending time in the kitchen. I try to eat a wide variety of food, although I often wind up resorting to carbs. As a whole, it's been a pretty good experience.

However, converting to veganism wasn't really my choice. My ex, who was both physically and emotionally abusive, made the choice for the both of us. Now that I've left her and am moving into my own apartment, I'm wondering if I want to stay vegan. After eating raw for a couple months, I have discovered that eating gluten and soy seem to greatly affect me, and my vegan options seem much more limited as a result. I also do not subscribe to vegan dogma. I do not believe that nature is inherently kind or harmonious at all, and I don't think it's inherently wrong to eat meat. I would, however, choose more humane options: grass-fed, free range, cage-free etc. I would add meat and possibly eggs, but probably not dairy, back into my diet on occasion.

On the side of staying vegan, it's cheaper (I'm a grad student) and probably an overall healthier diet. I have naturally high cholesterol, and eating meat/eggs would probably exacerbate that. I know how to cook vegan (although not soy/gluten free), but have no idea how to even begin preparing meat. My family has finally accepted that this is the way I eat. And this is vain, but I'm afraid that I'd gain weight if I wasn't vegan. Plus, I'm not entirely sure I could do it. I was vegetarian before I was vegan, and it's been a long, long time since I've eaten meat.

So strong arguments for or against? Any additional points to consider? Any ex-vegan experiences to share?
6 debaters made their point.

[07 Dec 2008|10:54pm]

What kind of food did you grow up eating?

EDIT: This surprises me. I thought this would draw out the less active members. Doesn't anyone else think this area is more significant than it receives credit for? Especially in a food/culture/ethics community?
5 debaters made their point.

Sneaking vegan versions of food to omnivores [21 Nov 2008|05:24pm]

Okay, so I have made plenty of vegan recipes for things like brownies or pancakes and served them to my family. My mom is relatively open-minded, and she tries to be objective. She usually tells me that they taste just as good as a regular brownie would taste. Yet, when she makes the brownies, she still uses eggs. Why does she do that when she knows vegan ones are just as good? It's not even more work or more money to make them my way! I've proven this to her.

On a related note, my dad is not open-minded. If he knows that something is vegan, he won't touch it, assuming that it must be terrible without those lucullan, ambrosial dairy by-products, as if that's what makes the food good. And my dad isn't even big on dairy products in the first place!

Anyway, Thanksgiving is coming up, and I said I'd eat the turkey if my mom bought a free range one that I approved before purchase. My dad then said that we'd have to buy two turkeys if we did that, assuming that the unnatural hormones and such are what make his meat taste good. Well, he's wrong. I know hunters that say that the meat they personally kill tastes a million times better than anything you could buy at a store, and it's no wonder why. That is natural meat.

So, here's an ethical question, and if it's inappropriate for this community, I apologize, and please just refer me to a more felicitous one.

Would it be wrong to volunteer to prepare the whole Thanksgiving meal, and make as many as possible things vegan versions and use a free range turkey and withhold the fact that I've prepared the foods this way until after they eat them? Or is that dishonest and .... demagogic? I feel kind of like a cozener, like trying to trick people so that I can impose my beliefs on them. However, it probably won't make a difference anyway. They'll admit that the vegan foods are just as good and then go right on making their foods with eggs and shit, like my mom. So ... my cause is better off by tricking them just because fewer eggs and junk will be used for the meal. Right? Or what?

X-posted: freegans, cheapvegan, vegandebate, vegancooking, vegan_debate
31 debaters made their point.

LIVE [16 Sep 2008|12:39pm]

There have been a couple of posts on veganpeople and veganism that have asked to help determine if certain situations can be morally acceptable despite not being strictly vegan - "is it ethical if I use these abandoned eggs from my rescued hen/drink this milk from a friend's pet cow/if people use seeing-eye dogs?"

For many vegans, the answer is no, no use of an animal is ethical - without a way to determine an animal's consent, we have no way of knowing if they are truly comfortable with the use of their products or services, and to continue to use them to our benefit is exploitation.

"Exploitation" and "consent" are keystones in the moral arguments against omnivorism. However, the same people who think it's arguable that consent is indeterminable in non-human animals also argue that animals are undeniably thinking, emotionally expressive beings capable of communicating things such as happiness, sadness, pain, grief, playfulness, love, and even some degree of spirituality.

How can consent be indeterminable if animals are also seen as self-aware, emotionally expressive beings?
17 debaters made their point.

Vegans shouldn't have sex with meat eaters? [31 Jul 2007|02:46am]

There's a group in New Zealand vegans shunning vegans who have relations with meat eaters.

Do you think this is taking Veganism to an extreme?

I think it does. You can't be 100% vegan. It's only something you try to achieve, but so many everyday products we use are not vegan. I'm sure we're familiar with cars and junk.

But to ban sex with someone? Or having a relationship? That's just sick. I'm a vegan who happens to like a meat eater. Do you think I care about the fact she eats meat? No. I don't.

The point is, that shouldn't be a factor in a relationship.

What do you think about this?
92 debaters made their point.

[30 Jul 2007|04:18pm]

[ mood | curious ]


I have a question...i think.

Anyhoo, I've been sick for months. They think its my gallbladder! >_<

The Dr.s are saying NO NUTS or BEANS!!!!

so think about that
no beans....of anykind....no kidney, navy, pinto, black, chick, SOY...no lentles...
no nuts....no almonds, walnuts, peanuts (OR PENUT BUTTER!), no pecans...

so if i cant have soy beans...doesnt that mean i cant have tofu? 
or...chick peas...so then i cant have HUMMUS??(which i eat...ALL THE TIME!)

Im freakin! so i think soy milk...since its not whole beans...and tofu might be ok right?

but im worried....so i cant eat ANYTHING anymore...anyting totally VEGAN
i mean, i am lactose intolerant so...theres that but...
i may have to start eating...DUN DUN DUN FISH??? or something...
i cant drop dead becasue all my staples are making me sick.....


oh help?!

xposted for major help sorry!
10 debaters made their point.

why or why not? [14 Jul 2007|06:45pm]

Should public universities be required to have vegetarian/vegan dorms/dining halls and in the same vein should they be required to have Kosher or (forgive my ignorance of what the word is called but) Islamic-diet adhering dining halls, etc?
28 debaters made their point.

[25 Jun 2007|01:42pm]

Just to forewarn, this is going to come off as a huge wank, but it's really not meant to be. It's more of simply something that I've noticed lately.

I've come to a conclusion about why, from my perspective, vegans, including those who really aren't wankers, come off as such. There are plenty of harmless vegans (by this I DON'T mean the ones who don't discuss their veganism at all, so I don't want anyone complaining to me about how I'm saying vegans shouldn't be wallflowers about their lifestyle. I'm not saying that at all). But even harmless vegans, who are NOT trying to sound like elitist and priviledged, can end up doing so.

This is because when you are around a vegan, everything they have to do is vegan because it is a lifestyle rather than a diet. There are vegan shoes. Vegan condoms (apparently). Vegan pet food. Vegan shampoo. Vegan topsoil (joking).

It sounds like a country club that will only serve Evian water and "good vanilla" in their baking (this is a cut at that chick on food network that always says "good"-read: expensive-before any product she uses in baking). So without even trying, from a non-vegan perspective, all vegans end up sounding like they are part of an exclusive club that to join you have to buy their products, like Amway.

This may just be in my crazy head so I'm really not trying to wank because this really can't be avoided. It's just a result of the vegan lifestyle being restrictive.
30 debaters made their point.

been wonder and I hope this is a good place to bring it up [30 Apr 2007|01:49pm]

There was a post recently on veganism that makes me wonder:

Is it okay to convert from vegan to meat eater? By okay, I mean not a "traitor" to the cause.

I noticed that in the person's post, people got up in arms about someone saying they were going to go back to meat eating because they were going to study aboard.

My opinion? It's your life. If you decide that veganism really isn't you, then switch. I'm not going to stop you or scream at you. Do what you want to do. I've known people who have done it before and..they're still the same person. I've done it before and then converted back. It's all about what's right for you.

Thoughts? Opinions? Flames?
81 debaters made their point.

Hufu [26 Apr 2007|03:32pm]

Is it wrong to enjoy human-flavoured tofu? I mean, it's not as though any murder is involved.
8 debaters made their point.

Uses of a cow's non-meat bi-products [22 Apr 2007|09:26am]


Many of these products can be used simultaneously - meaning one cow can go towards several of these products + meat.

Supposedly, it's more efficient to eat vegetables. So I'm looking for other uses of plant matter (excluding what's used for food). Please post as many as you can find to try and convince me that it's more efficient to eat plant matter and then create the products synthetically.

All I can think is that trees that loose their leaves can be used for humus and other uses for grain shafts such as food for animals or other plants.

I'm being serious on this because I really want to know what other products or even multiple food products from the *same* plant, excluding a plant that only has one food product that are more efficient in combination with synthetic.
123 debaters made their point.

A couple interesting articles... [16 Apr 2007|06:55pm]

Here, take a look...


17 debaters made their point.

[12 Apr 2007|11:19am]

For all those people saying that major Jewish organizations, regular janes and john does who saw the exhibit and Holocaust survivors don't find comparisons between the Holocaust and slaughterhouses offensive...please read these articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Bashevis_Singer (the quote that they use "all people are nazis blah blah blah" actually came from a character in a book he wrote...and I'll point out he didn't actually live in a concentration camp so his comparison means nothing since he didn't actually feel the pain of one)

"The comparisons prompted an angry statement from Abraham Foxman, Anti-Defamation League national director and a Holocaust survivor."

"The effort by PETA to compare the deliberate, systematic murder of millions of Jews to the issue of animal rights is abhorrent," the statement said. "PETA's effort to seek approval for their 'Holocaust on Your Plate' campaign is outrageous, offensive and takes chutzpah to new heights."

"Lisa Lange, PETA's vice president of communications, told CNN's "American Morning With Paula Zahn" on Friday that the idea for the public relations effort came from the late Nobel Prize-winning author Isaac Bashevis Singer, who, she said, wrote: "In relation to them [animals], all people are Nazis; for them it is an eternal Treblinka" -- a death camp in Poland."

See why we (normal people) don't like the comparison? And yes there are normal vegans who wouldn't make the comparison so I'm including anyone who isn't as radical as most on here. So I guess that the "few" people that find it offensive are just misunderstanding what PeTA is trying to say.

'The Anti-Defamation League statement, however, counters that "abusive treatment of animals should be opposed, but cannot and must not be compared to the Holocaust."'

You feel like you are bringing animals UP by this comparison and as you can see by numerous articles, you are bringing humans down. You know who supported this...on the first two pages of yahoo searches the ONLY thing about them liking this tactic was from goveg.com and peta.org...funny why that is.

Thoughts on NightCollapse )
38 debaters made their point.

Is animal suffering comparable to other atrocities? [08 Apr 2007|06:55pm]

If animals have the ability to suffer, are people committing an atrocity comparable to or worse than the holocaust when they eat meat?
424 debaters made their point.

Here is the poll [04 Apr 2007|10:52am]

I had mentioned in a past thread how it would be interesting to kind of conduct a poll of vegans/vegetarians to see how many of them may be understanding/supportive of euthanasia. So I posted about it in the veganpeople community and here are the results so far in case any of you are interested:


And to Trancendenz and Smumma: Looks like you might have your work cut out for you providing debate with vegans, because there are some vegans on that thread who are debating more intensely than anything I've even seen in this community yet! lol

12 debaters made their point.

...This one might catch some flack I suppose. [30 Mar 2007|09:13am]

[ mood | curious ]

I know this isn't a very highly active community... it seems there isn't a large variety or number of members who post and comment. But despite that, I thought I'd just wing this one out there to see what you all might think...

There exist communities like this one, where the idea and point of it (at least initially) was/is to provide open forum for both vegans and non-vegans alike to interact and debate topics that can affect both sides.

Then there are communities like Veganpeople, with the primary point of them being to network fellow vegans and people interested in veganism around the world. The community offers advice on various subjects; support to people looking into a vegan lifestyle; sharing of recipes; Sharing of places to shop and restaurant and travel recommendations; and various other things vegan-oriented. Nearly always in a polite, welcoming, and friendly manner.

But then there exist communities such as Petards (and a whole slew of other communities like it) which namely exist apparently, for no other reason than for people to get together and discuss how much they hate and generally can't stand some certain group of people. (Animal rights activists, vegans, etc...)
Which to me, just kind of seems... well... odd to say the least. I don't know people in such communities personally, so obviously I can't make a full and fair assessment as to whether or not they "have a life" per say. But it just seems that if someone is going to spend a lot of time dwelling on a subject like that they might could better benefit from pondering and learning to find a more constructive and positive use of their time.

I know there are some vegans who spend most of their time just being negative and hating people that aren't vegan. (And no, I don't think even cannibalcountry fully and truly falls into this category because I'm sure she has friends and family (heck she's pointed out even her own 'significant other') who eat meat and she still loves them) ...I mean seriously I'm sure there are some vegans who will absolutely rip into anyone who is not vegan, including their so-called "loved ones"... And I find that terribly sad (and not helpful to the point/purpose of veganism either).
Basically, there are extremely negative and ignorantly hateful/spiteful people among all walks of life it seems. But the frequency of which one comes across blogs and forum communities dedicated specifically to the sole purpose of making fun of vegans and such is... honestly pathetic.

I really can't fathom why it is people can spend their time with such things.
Moreso I can't understand why there are vegans (and yes I know cannibalcountry falls into this category now) who would join such communities and post in them as if they're going to make a dent in such an environment whose reason for existence in the first place is to poke fun at people like her to begin with. Thereby people like her posting in such communities is like pouring gasoline on a fire really. I know she's probably trying to just speak up in place of all those who are not doing so... trying to offer the counterpoint... and being a fellow vegan I commend her efforts on the matter to an extent. But all in all it just seems a waste of breath, so to speak. At least a debate community like this exists for debate, to attract (hopefully) a bit more balance from each side of the issue and hopefully people are more willing to be rational with their language etc... But communities that exist just to bash AR folks (Or even what communities exist out there specifically just to bash meat eaters) in my opinion seem a waste of one's brain muscle.

Any thoughts?

(P.S. sorry if its like I'm dragging cannibalcountry right into the middle of this right off the bat, but I figured if I didn't plug her in where I did and how I did it would have been only a matter of time till she was thrown into the conversation anyway --- as I've realized, scanning back through multiple entries in this community, that some people on here seem to have an affinity for bringing her up as an "example" for things... I figured I'd just try to kind of head some of that off from the start, if that makes sense.)

49 debaters made their point.

do vegans ever feel satiety? [29 Mar 2007|12:02am]
for health reasons, i have begun switching my diet over to organic and locally grown foods (including meat, dairy and eggs), and this means i have to shop at hippie grocery stores, which of course ooze with vegan options galore.

but the thing i've noticed is that many of the vegan ways to get proteins leave me feeling unsatisfied. a handful of nuts at say 200 calories does not give me the same feeling as animal-derived foods of similar calorie count. by which i mean i can feel satiety for a couple of HOURS eating 2 small boiled eggs (same calories), but i feel hungry 1/2 hour after eating the same amount of calories in nut form.

and don't get me started on the sheer volumes of beans and grains needed to get in enough calories as a vegan. most of which i can't eat because most grains and starches tend to not be so good to my tummy.

even eating the mighty avocado, high-calorie and flavorful vegan staple, is not as filling to me as 200 calories of raw milk or raw milk cheese or grass-fed local beef or free range local chicken, etc.

if i were to go vegan at this stage in my life, i would be sick all the time from the starches/grains, and also feel hungry though my tummy was full of quinoa and chard, say.

and yet there are fat vegans who eat fried banana chips and such (oh, the unhealthiness!), but i wonder if they feel satiety, that sense of fullness. and of course i wonder if the very thin starveling-looking vegans feel it too.

this is kind of a open-ended question/inquiry to vegans and those who eat a lot of non-animal foods in their diets for whatever reasons.
14 debaters made their point.

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